Interesting! I recall decades ago making fall out measurements at plant some 10s of km from the coast. It was a surprise that some 50% of the fallout was salt from the ocean rather than possible particles from the plant. Maybe the salt in the atmosphere is a cause of the rain close to the cost rather than further inland. Some places near the coast can get torrential rain as has happened in SE Qld and recently in Sydney.
It was a proposal by my pal Ned Nikolov. Quote: “Sun induced changes of global cloud cover/albedo through Berkiland electric currents and magnetic modulation of galactic cosmic ray flux are responsible”. It’s not something he can progress with mathematical formula etc.
Roy Spencer is an eminent meteorologist, and has posted the work of another more expert on cloud seeding as regards Texas. Travis Herzog on FB. Suggest you read it.
Much of the debate about cloud seeding has joined the chemtrail/Alien abduction/ Big foot TV channel level "science" for the easy believers and hard of science - when compared with what is known and how what is done is controlled and understood. Criticising or speculating from ignorance in such specialised area as many have is simply wrong, when what is known is discoverable and necessary to understand to have a meaningful opinion, as distinct from a vague belief.
The largest problem in these ares is people simply don't understand the numbers and physics, and most lack any formation to understand the merit of what is said/claimed by others.
But there are experts that do understand the empirical truth we measure, nobody understands clouds is deterministic physical way. What we know IS in published papers on the science of cloud seeding to date, over decades. A very practical subject in fact when the description of clouds mathematically is a very crude and unknown science, so is mainly empirical - what we measure to actually happen.
Seed clouds in a known/ measured way and see what happens, and repeat. A bit like modelling only the basic inputs and outputs are both measured, not guessed.
There are also self appointed officials and experts that don't understand, Feynman's "pseudo scientists", who assume expertise by position and title while having no real grasp of the subject except to repeat what other experts make up in similarly contrived papers. Most of the climate "scientists" in Universities, who make it up in a model designed to support whatever is the grant funded claim du jour, by falsifying the circumstantial evidence in legal terms, or just make it up, period. Climate science as modelled by the IPCC. (wrong on the measurements taken to check it).
I hope this article provides some re-assurance about what really happened in the back country mountains of Texas, with limited water retention on the poor soil of its slopes, and where flash floods can often occur when they are hit ina sensitive place by warm damp air from the Gulf of America - which is cooled and precipitates when it reaches them and climbs. All a well know and recurring problem - which has caused a well documented litany of such disasters since the white man arrived there, by the same cause, in what is the richest country in the World, but is still not not well defended against, by simple neglect of duty by authorities.
Also see Wadi flash floods in the Middle East, villages in narrow hard rock valleys built alongside rivers in steep Mountains with thin/low water capacity/unstable soil cover, etc..., etc. What could possibly go wrong? Human stupidity attributed to "freak weather", that keeps happening in fact, naturally, over long periods, because the combination of intense storms and valleys are random over huge areas. And now..... they have climate change to blame. Or cloud seeding miles away, strictly controlled. Really? All to avoid doing something effective and expensive to protect people from known lethal risks.
Humans are very sad, irrational and/or corruptly irresponsible creatures when it comes to understanding realities they don't like, that they created for themselves, but would rather not admit to and fix if responsible. Especially with foreknowledge of how and why floods happen, and how best to protect against flash floods with culverts and diversions. So these people do the opposite and build on the threatened land or allow acces to it without ay special precautions regarding weather alerts. Also see Fukushima and other ports on Tsunami prone coasts, 60 feet below Tsunami levels of the past, etc....(see Valencia). Just rebuild and wait for the next one....
The LIbyan town built in a Wadi mouth town plus Soviet dams that can fail, etc,
WTX do people think forms Wadis and V-shaped valleys in mountainous regions, how do Rivers get to be running through Mountain ranges, Such as the Danube? Or even the River Mole through the North Downs? All obvious to people who think and research the subject - but not to people who look to anything to blame disasters on other than understanding the unavoidable consequences of natural reality and the history of extreme events over hundreds of years, and prefer blaming anything except the callous incompetence of the people in change of their safety who could protect them from a recurrence of any such disaster? etc. Mostly, the problem is people, nature doesn't like us, even know e exist or care about us, that's our sad religions.
It's our job to use our technologies to protect ourselves and hold those responsible for our protection to account. Not believe what we prefer to believe and put our faith in god, then say we hope god is with the grieving survivors, as an excuse for Bullshit neglect causing avoidable deaths in the full knowledge of the obvious and well understood dangers from the past record.
In the real World the cynical or stupid people responsible deny the known risks and hope they are no longer responsible when it happens. Also people in less controlled environments simply ignore the risks when building. Take a look at shack houses on the Hurricane coasts...
It seems the authorities remain safe in the knowledge that the people are too lazy minded to check such things, or too poor to live/be anywhere safer. And all will have forgotten when it happens again and those who failed to act after the last even/ and are culpable for the deaths now are long gone/dead already. The human condition. Act stupid, and repeat ..... and its the innocent, ignorant and trusting who die, not those who know the risks and are paid and responsible to keep people safe - but don't act to avoid these obvious disasters, that can occur any time, or not in a lifetime. Tsunami, Earthquake, Flash Floods, Waddayagot? Protection wise? Not a lot. Build and hope?
Corrupt Darwinism at scale is a human trait. Humans are to blame and can do better.
BTW Roy, John Christy and Steve Koonin have been hired by Trump to get some evidence based science into government law making and action regarding real climate change and its probable causes, not what's made up in models. (I have met two of them three at their lectures, and am in touch with Roy Spencer. All are very sound, evidence based scientists with decades of experience, who really understand the Science others do not, especially not the activists who make it up in models for their government grants, that have not happen as advertised. Because they are wrong on the evidence of measured facts and physical laws most don't even understand. CEng, CPhys
I am not sure why you use the term 'eminent' and what that means exactly. It is like someone associated with a university should somehow be listened to when we know that really just means they know how to play politics and have agreed to be vaccinated. (Otherwise, they would have lost their job through the period of covid. It means they are conformist. :-)) It is my considered opinion that Roy Spencer is fairly ignorant on this topic of cloud seeding and is attempting to shut down any discussion, at least he is referring to 'cloud seeding' as a 'conspiracy theory' across at my Facebook. Now that is ridiculous.
PS CHEM TRAILS: I believe Roy may be referring to the science fiction nonsense belief of the less scientifically literate that con trails from aircraft are evidence of chemical seeding by governments. A simple and provable nonsense as the con trails are almost all from commercial flights that work to known schedules, not to optimum cloud precipitation conditions, as your smart phone will tell you, and are emitting water vapour from intense combustion of hydrocarbons at cold stratospheric temperatures where there is also very little water vapour, because it already condensed. And the Jet streams are.
So it would be largely pointless, not aligned with local atmospheric conditions time wise, way too high to work over the area it is released above, and no civilian fleet can do this at any scale and keep it secret.
"The Spencer and Christy prize refers to the NASA Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal awarded to Dr. Roy Spencer and Dr. John Christy. They received this medal for their work on global temperature monitoring using satellite data. Specifically, their development of the first system for monitoring global temperatures by combining data from various meteorological satellites earned them this recognition. " Your witness.
Roy Spencer and John Christy are indeed eminent and have won prizes for their work to deliver global temperature data across the whole Earth surface (almost) at different levels in the atmosphere- from Polar orbiting satellites using Microwave reflection, carried out for NASA..
They are intimately involved with the measurement of reality and are the accredited meteorologists for the State of Alabama, not so far away from Texas, on the same latitude, and subject to a similar air flow system up and down the central plains of the USA. Their work is necessarily precise and a recognised global bench mark for global temperatures, and they know what is simply bogus claims, based on measured data over belief/fear. Also see the nonsense that is talked about chem-trails, by those ignorant of the simple processes of propulsion using intense combustion of hydrocarbons at high altitudes.
Roy and John are expert witnesses at Senate Committees on the subject of climate change, about which they offer only fact based physicist realism. I consider that justifies the description, although we differ on the control physics of Earth's enrgy balance mechanism.
The account Roy refers to is by a better qualified & more local meteorologist he defers to, who clearly sets out that there was no significant seeding proximal in distance or time to the heavy rain event. Also that such severe flash floods in this region are well recorded and not unusual, including sig ificant loss of life in senitive locations. Created by an elevated range of hills that causes saturated atmospheres from the Gulf to precipitate with catastrophic consequences for the lower lying topography, because it is so flat and also the soil is the hills offers little water retention. All clearly described.
Also see Powder Picker below.
PS Not sure what Roy's personal decision on COVID vaccination has to do with this? He is a proper physicist, not of a nature that accepts consensus, will act on the data, and indeed is a well known climate sceptic, who has given evidence to Senate committees based on the realities that satellites measure, as does Professor Christy who heads up the department.
I appreciate the desire for transparency Jennifer. I'm also pretty certain a few years spent at a desk forecasting the weather will dissuade anyone of the idea we humans can generate rainfall of any significance, nevermimd 13 inches of it. Even if we could, how would you ever prove it? Its not unlike the global warming nonsense. Some questions just dont have answers. Unfortunately I've been dealing with this cloud-seeding question for 40 years. Its tiresome.
Interesting! I recall decades ago making fall out measurements at plant some 10s of km from the coast. It was a surprise that some 50% of the fallout was salt from the ocean rather than possible particles from the plant. Maybe the salt in the atmosphere is a cause of the rain close to the cost rather than further inland. Some places near the coast can get torrential rain as has happened in SE Qld and recently in Sydney.
Public exposure and fuller consultation is desperately overdue. Thank you Dr Marohasy.
I know for a fact that Snowy Hydro was seeding clouds for many years, they have ceased it now, I believe the product used was Silver Nitrite.
Hey Jennifer. Have you heard anything about Berkiland electrical currents effects on cloud nucleation.
I would be keen for you to tell us more. :-). For sure there is fair bit of chemistry involved in all of this, and electricity.
It was a proposal by my pal Ned Nikolov. Quote: “Sun induced changes of global cloud cover/albedo through Berkiland electric currents and magnetic modulation of galactic cosmic ray flux are responsible”. It’s not something he can progress with mathematical formula etc.
Sorry. I meant Ned cannot progress with mathematical
Roy Spencer is an eminent meteorologist, and has posted the work of another more expert on cloud seeding as regards Texas. Travis Herzog on FB. Suggest you read it.
https://www.facebook.com/TravisABC13/posts/pfbid02fvkMZggXok5iM2jUJdq7ij2ZZqhCf62hxnuBMgfEwf813kTcyg1EBsWd2fWK6vFRl
Much of the debate about cloud seeding has joined the chemtrail/Alien abduction/ Big foot TV channel level "science" for the easy believers and hard of science - when compared with what is known and how what is done is controlled and understood. Criticising or speculating from ignorance in such specialised area as many have is simply wrong, when what is known is discoverable and necessary to understand to have a meaningful opinion, as distinct from a vague belief.
The largest problem in these ares is people simply don't understand the numbers and physics, and most lack any formation to understand the merit of what is said/claimed by others.
But there are experts that do understand the empirical truth we measure, nobody understands clouds is deterministic physical way. What we know IS in published papers on the science of cloud seeding to date, over decades. A very practical subject in fact when the description of clouds mathematically is a very crude and unknown science, so is mainly empirical - what we measure to actually happen.
Seed clouds in a known/ measured way and see what happens, and repeat. A bit like modelling only the basic inputs and outputs are both measured, not guessed.
There are also self appointed officials and experts that don't understand, Feynman's "pseudo scientists", who assume expertise by position and title while having no real grasp of the subject except to repeat what other experts make up in similarly contrived papers. Most of the climate "scientists" in Universities, who make it up in a model designed to support whatever is the grant funded claim du jour, by falsifying the circumstantial evidence in legal terms, or just make it up, period. Climate science as modelled by the IPCC. (wrong on the measurements taken to check it).
I hope this article provides some re-assurance about what really happened in the back country mountains of Texas, with limited water retention on the poor soil of its slopes, and where flash floods can often occur when they are hit ina sensitive place by warm damp air from the Gulf of America - which is cooled and precipitates when it reaches them and climbs. All a well know and recurring problem - which has caused a well documented litany of such disasters since the white man arrived there, by the same cause, in what is the richest country in the World, but is still not not well defended against, by simple neglect of duty by authorities.
Also see Wadi flash floods in the Middle East, villages in narrow hard rock valleys built alongside rivers in steep Mountains with thin/low water capacity/unstable soil cover, etc..., etc. What could possibly go wrong? Human stupidity attributed to "freak weather", that keeps happening in fact, naturally, over long periods, because the combination of intense storms and valleys are random over huge areas. And now..... they have climate change to blame. Or cloud seeding miles away, strictly controlled. Really? All to avoid doing something effective and expensive to protect people from known lethal risks.
Humans are very sad, irrational and/or corruptly irresponsible creatures when it comes to understanding realities they don't like, that they created for themselves, but would rather not admit to and fix if responsible. Especially with foreknowledge of how and why floods happen, and how best to protect against flash floods with culverts and diversions. So these people do the opposite and build on the threatened land or allow acces to it without ay special precautions regarding weather alerts. Also see Fukushima and other ports on Tsunami prone coasts, 60 feet below Tsunami levels of the past, etc....(see Valencia). Just rebuild and wait for the next one....
The LIbyan town built in a Wadi mouth town plus Soviet dams that can fail, etc,
WTX do people think forms Wadis and V-shaped valleys in mountainous regions, how do Rivers get to be running through Mountain ranges, Such as the Danube? Or even the River Mole through the North Downs? All obvious to people who think and research the subject - but not to people who look to anything to blame disasters on other than understanding the unavoidable consequences of natural reality and the history of extreme events over hundreds of years, and prefer blaming anything except the callous incompetence of the people in change of their safety who could protect them from a recurrence of any such disaster? etc. Mostly, the problem is people, nature doesn't like us, even know e exist or care about us, that's our sad religions.
It's our job to use our technologies to protect ourselves and hold those responsible for our protection to account. Not believe what we prefer to believe and put our faith in god, then say we hope god is with the grieving survivors, as an excuse for Bullshit neglect causing avoidable deaths in the full knowledge of the obvious and well understood dangers from the past record.
In the real World the cynical or stupid people responsible deny the known risks and hope they are no longer responsible when it happens. Also people in less controlled environments simply ignore the risks when building. Take a look at shack houses on the Hurricane coasts...
It seems the authorities remain safe in the knowledge that the people are too lazy minded to check such things, or too poor to live/be anywhere safer. And all will have forgotten when it happens again and those who failed to act after the last even/ and are culpable for the deaths now are long gone/dead already. The human condition. Act stupid, and repeat ..... and its the innocent, ignorant and trusting who die, not those who know the risks and are paid and responsible to keep people safe - but don't act to avoid these obvious disasters, that can occur any time, or not in a lifetime. Tsunami, Earthquake, Flash Floods, Waddayagot? Protection wise? Not a lot. Build and hope?
Corrupt Darwinism at scale is a human trait. Humans are to blame and can do better.
BTW Roy, John Christy and Steve Koonin have been hired by Trump to get some evidence based science into government law making and action regarding real climate change and its probable causes, not what's made up in models. (I have met two of them three at their lectures, and am in touch with Roy Spencer. All are very sound, evidence based scientists with decades of experience, who really understand the Science others do not, especially not the activists who make it up in models for their government grants, that have not happen as advertised. Because they are wrong on the evidence of measured facts and physical laws most don't even understand. CEng, CPhys
I am not sure why you use the term 'eminent' and what that means exactly. It is like someone associated with a university should somehow be listened to when we know that really just means they know how to play politics and have agreed to be vaccinated. (Otherwise, they would have lost their job through the period of covid. It means they are conformist. :-)) It is my considered opinion that Roy Spencer is fairly ignorant on this topic of cloud seeding and is attempting to shut down any discussion, at least he is referring to 'cloud seeding' as a 'conspiracy theory' across at my Facebook. Now that is ridiculous.
PS CHEM TRAILS: I believe Roy may be referring to the science fiction nonsense belief of the less scientifically literate that con trails from aircraft are evidence of chemical seeding by governments. A simple and provable nonsense as the con trails are almost all from commercial flights that work to known schedules, not to optimum cloud precipitation conditions, as your smart phone will tell you, and are emitting water vapour from intense combustion of hydrocarbons at cold stratospheric temperatures where there is also very little water vapour, because it already condensed. And the Jet streams are.
So it would be largely pointless, not aligned with local atmospheric conditions time wise, way too high to work over the area it is released above, and no civilian fleet can do this at any scale and keep it secret.
Sic:
"The Spencer and Christy prize refers to the NASA Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal awarded to Dr. Roy Spencer and Dr. John Christy. They received this medal for their work on global temperature monitoring using satellite data. Specifically, their development of the first system for monitoring global temperatures by combining data from various meteorological satellites earned them this recognition. " Your witness.
Roy Spencer and John Christy are indeed eminent and have won prizes for their work to deliver global temperature data across the whole Earth surface (almost) at different levels in the atmosphere- from Polar orbiting satellites using Microwave reflection, carried out for NASA..
They are intimately involved with the measurement of reality and are the accredited meteorologists for the State of Alabama, not so far away from Texas, on the same latitude, and subject to a similar air flow system up and down the central plains of the USA. Their work is necessarily precise and a recognised global bench mark for global temperatures, and they know what is simply bogus claims, based on measured data over belief/fear. Also see the nonsense that is talked about chem-trails, by those ignorant of the simple processes of propulsion using intense combustion of hydrocarbons at high altitudes.
Roy and John are expert witnesses at Senate Committees on the subject of climate change, about which they offer only fact based physicist realism. I consider that justifies the description, although we differ on the control physics of Earth's enrgy balance mechanism.
The account Roy refers to is by a better qualified & more local meteorologist he defers to, who clearly sets out that there was no significant seeding proximal in distance or time to the heavy rain event. Also that such severe flash floods in this region are well recorded and not unusual, including sig ificant loss of life in senitive locations. Created by an elevated range of hills that causes saturated atmospheres from the Gulf to precipitate with catastrophic consequences for the lower lying topography, because it is so flat and also the soil is the hills offers little water retention. All clearly described.
Also see Powder Picker below.
PS Not sure what Roy's personal decision on COVID vaccination has to do with this? He is a proper physicist, not of a nature that accepts consensus, will act on the data, and indeed is a well known climate sceptic, who has given evidence to Senate committees based on the realities that satellites measure, as does Professor Christy who heads up the department.
I appreciate the desire for transparency Jennifer. I'm also pretty certain a few years spent at a desk forecasting the weather will dissuade anyone of the idea we humans can generate rainfall of any significance, nevermimd 13 inches of it. Even if we could, how would you ever prove it? Its not unlike the global warming nonsense. Some questions just dont have answers. Unfortunately I've been dealing with this cloud-seeding question for 40 years. Its tiresome.